219: Internal Family Systems and Couples with Tammy Sollenberger

Welcome back to The Couples Therapist Couch! This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

In this episode, we’re talking with Tammy Sollenberger about Internal Family Systems and couples. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots, and watch it on YouTube – follow and leave a 5-star review.

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The Couples Therapist Couch 219: Internal Family Systems and Couples with Tammy Sollenberger

Learn more about the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/

Learn more about the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new

In this episode, Shane talks with Tammy Sollenberger about Internal Family Systems (IFS) and couples. Tammy is a licensed clinical mental health counselor and an Internal Family Systems Certified Supervisor. Hear the different parts we’re made up of, how IFS works in our heads, how our parts trigger each other, how to recognize your feelings and characteristics, and how to stay grounded in the true foundation of a relationship.

This episode covers everything from IFS to relationships. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:

• Why are their different parts of us?
• Do all parts have a positive intention?
• How do we keep up the love and compassion to ourselves?
• Where does empowerment come from?
• How does IFS work?
• Can people work on IFS exercises at home?
• How do parts show up in couples?
• Are our parts protective of us?

To learn more about Tammy, The One Inside podcast, and The One Inside book, visit TammySollenberger.com

Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below: 

 Show Notes

• 219: Internal Family Systems and Couples with Tammy Sollenberger
  
  • [0:21] Welcome back to The Couples Therapist Couch!
  • [0:37] Check out The Couples Therapist Couch on YouTube and Instagram
  • [0:45] Join The Couples Therapist Couch Facebook Group
  • [0:48] Learn more about the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/
  • [0:55] To learn more about Tammy, The One Inside podcast, and The One Inside book, visit TammySollenberger.com 
  • [1:55] What is her background? 
  • [4:22] Why are their different parts of us?
  • [10:35] Do all parts have a positive intention?
  • [15:08] How do we keep up the love and compassion to ourselves?
  • [16:32] How does IFS (Internal Family Systems) work?
  • [18:25] How do parts show up in couples?
  • [23:00] How do you navigate conversations with parts of yourself?
  • [28:55] How do you regulate your self?
  • [31:52] Where does empowerment come from?
  • [32:24] Can people work on IFS exercises at home?
  • [35:32] Are our parts protective of us?
  • [37:04] To learn more about Tammy, The One Inside podcast, and The One Inside book, visit TammySollenberger.com
  • [39:00] Check out The Couples Therapist Couch on YouTube and Instagram
  • [39:07] Learn more about the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/
  • [39:12] Find out more about the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new
  • [39:40] Join The Couples Therapist Couch Facebook Group

What is The Couples Therapist Couch?

This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Many of the episodes are interviews with leaders in the field of Relationships. The show is meant to help Therapists and Coaches learn how to help people to deepen their connection, but in the process it explores what is most needed for each of us to love, heal, and grow. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

Learn more about the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/

Find out more about the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new

Transcript

Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

Tammy Sollenberger 0:00
I'm not perfect, he's not perfect, she's not perfect. And so sort of the parts that, if that's driving the bus, then it kind of stalls. The whole system this sort of need to be perfect, and that happens to us a lot, right? If it needs to be the certain way, if that part is driving the bus or leading, then it stalls, or sort of it freezes everybody.

Intro VO 0:22
Welcome to The Couples Therapist Couch, the podcast for couples therapists, marriage counselors and relationship coaches to explore the practice of couples therapy. And now your host, Shane Birkel,

Shane Birkel 0:38
Everybody, welcome back to The Couples Therapist Couch. This is your host, Shane Birkel, and this is the podcast that's all about the practice of couples therapy. Every week I try to share with you an interview or some kind of educational mini workshop about how to work with couples. And this week, I'm excited to share with you an interview that I did with Tammy Sollenberger, who's an expert in internal family systems. So we talk all about how to use internal family systems with couples. For those of you who enjoy listening to the podcast, I also have the membership called the couples therapists inner circle, which I'm taking a few more people in this summer cohort coming up here. So if you're interested in that, click on the link in the show notes to find out more, but without further introduction, here is the interview with Tammy sollenberger. Hey everyone. Welcome back to the couple's therapist couch. This is Shane Birkel, and today I'm speaking with Tammy Sollenberger, internal family systems supervisor, host of The One Inside podcast, and author of the book The One Inside 30 days to your authentic self. Hey Tammy, welcome to the show.

Tammy Sollenberger 1:45
Hey Shane, thanks for having me.

Shane Birkel 1:48
Yeah, I'm so excited to talk to you again. Tammy and I are old friends. We've we've been, you know, connected for a lot of years. And why don't you start by telling everyone a little bit more about yourself.

Tammy Sollenberger 1:59
I'm excited to be on your show today. And you know, Shane, for people that don't know, which they wouldn't know this that Shane was super helpful in helping me launch my own podcast, and super just very helpful. And I'll introduce myself by saying this. You know, I had parts of me that when I started thinking about doing a podcast that were had no idea what to do, were scared, were overwhelmed, and so I had all these parts, and then you were someone that I could reach out to, that I could that answered my questions, that really helped calm my system down, and helped me be able to, like, do this really big thing. So thank you for that. Yeah,

Shane Birkel 2:39
that's that's awesome. And I remember once you started getting into it. I mean, I, I was asking you for advice at that point, and I feel like, you know, you've just taken off. And for anyone who's interested, I would definitely recommend, you know, listening to your podcast, getting your book, for sure. And I've, it's been, it's been so incredible to watch how much you've accomplished in the last few years. Oh,

Tammy Sollenberger 3:02
thanks, Shane. I really appreciate that. Yeah, and it's been fun. And I think that's the thing you and I were just talking about this, that when you have the have these side projects, whether it's a podcast or you're writing a book or whatever, whatever, like thing that you want to do that feels really big, but they're kind of hobby or like side hustles or big projects. It really does take support and community and really working with your own parts. Otherwise you don't so many people have, like ideas, right? Like, here, I want to write a book, or, Hey, I want to do this thing, but their own systems, their own parts of them keep them from being able to do that, whether it's overwhelm or fear or, you know, needing it to be perfect, or, you know, there's sort of this huge list of parts of us that really get us, get in the way of us being able to accomplish really cool stuff. That's

Shane Birkel 3:51
great. I love, I love that you're already sort of bringing the idea of our parts into the conversation. And, you know, that's really cool. It's, it makes me think that that's just the way that you see the world. And I think that's, this is a really good entry point into our conversation. You know, can you just give everybody a little bit of a background of like, you know, what do you mean when you when you're talking about there are parts of you that you know are afraid to do something, like start a podcast, or there are other parts of you that, you know, tell everyone to give everyone a little bit of the background.

Tammy Sollenberger 4:25
So what I think is really organic is, you know, we all have these parts of us, and so I want people to think about, you know, that you have a part of you that's listening to this podcast right now, and then you have another part that probably is, like, I should be doing something different, but I'm listening to this, and I'm doing that, and maybe I'm listening as I'm walking, or whatever. But there's another part that's kind of like, you know, you really should be doing the dishes, or you should be doing this, or there's sort of this list of something, something, or, you know, you should be connecting to your spouse, you know, whatever that is. So, so we have a part. So we have one part, let's say. It's that's either doing something or feeling us some way, or thinking something or and then we have parts that react to that. So we have this idea of multiplicity, this idea that I am multiple. My personality is multiple. There's a part of me that likes, thinks, feels, behaves, believes, whatever, one thing, like, let's eat all the brownies. Yes, perfectly. Brownies are delicious. Love the brownies, but as soon as I say that, I notice another part reacting to that. But you know, you can't just have one, and then as soon as you have one, then you have, like, four, and then you feel really guilty. And So already I have these two parts, two parts of me, one that wants brownies and loves brownies, and another one that's like, No way, Jose, grab the kale. What are you thinking? So we have these parts, and then we have us. And so I kind of like to think of it as, like, thinking of it as a one part in one hand, like I'm holding up my left hand, I'm holding up my right hand, and then me, and I'm almost moving myself back. There's me. I am here. I my authentic self, my true self with a capital S. I am the one that is calm, clear, confident, created, connected. And I can listen to these two parts like, I can turn towards the one that loves brownies and says Hey, and I can say hey, with curiosity, tell me about why you want me to eat those brownies? Like, let's talk about that, right? And it wants me to be happy, and it knows brownies makes me happy. Great. Of course, that makes a lot of sense. But then I can turn towards the other one that says, No way eat the kale, and I can say, Hey, why do you want me to eat the kale? Because kale that feeling good in your body makes you happy, right? Like, I want you to feel good in your body, and that's something that makes you happy. Oh, okay, so if I'm listening to both parts, they're turned to me, I'm turned to them. I can really hear with curiosity, how they both want me to be happy. What usually happens is the parts just look and turn to each other and argue, right? They just gotta get forth. So they're sort of like arguing siblings. And then I come in like the loving parent, and say, hey, the adult, hey, what's going on? And I'm not mad, right? I'm not judging, I'm not critical, I'm not shaming them for wanting brownies. I'm not shaming the one for the kale like I am open and listening. So that's what ifs says that that is our personality structure. Are these parts of us, and then there's

Shane Birkel 7:22
us, yeah? And if you are moving into being judgmental or shaming, that would mean that it's just another part of you, right? Yeah? Because, because you're your ideal self, or I was thinking about like the idea of mindfulness, it's like your conscious self, like your conscious self is always just filled with love and compassion and understanding and strength. I feel like is an important part of that too. When you when we can tap into that authentic part of ourself, but a lot of times, we have those other these other parts coming up, and we don't even realize that they start running the show in our life. Is that right?

Tammy Sollenberger 8:00
That's exactly right, exactly right. So you can use any sort of like, they're running the show, they're driving the bus, they're at the, you know, the lecture, bossing everybody around. They're, you know, in the front of the orchestra, like they think they're the boss, right? They think they're the boss. So if you have a part that says you can't do anything unless it's perfect, and so then you find you're frustrated, right? Because I want to do things, or I want to create a new habit or create a new goal or or have a different type of relationship, but I can't do that because I'm not perfect. He's not perfect, she's not perfect. And so sort of the parts that, if that's driving the bus, then it kind of stalls the whole system, this sort of need to be perfect. And that happens to us a lot, right? It needs to be the certain way, if that part is driving the bus or leading, then it stalls, or, sort of it freezes. Everybody like, Oh, okay. And so if that's the voice we're listening to all the time, then this might be why you're struggling with something right, whether, whether it's making a change, and thinking about, sort of the idea of you want to make a change, right? You want to make all of us want to make changes in some way. Like, I joke around about like, even if I think about like, I just want to drink more water, I just want to drink more water. Well, why is that so hard? It's so stupid. It's so silly. But there's something, if I want to make a change in some way, there's a part of me that wants to make a change, and there's clearly a part that doesn't. And so if I'm the leader, then I can be more that observer, that curious, loving compassion observer to find out what's happening. Why am I stuck, if I want a different type of relationship, why am I not having that, not in a critical judging way, but an open way? Why do I not have the type of relationship that I want to have? And I'm also doing what Colin an Ifs a U turn, but I'm not looking at my partner, which is easy to do, right? A part of me is going to be like, well, here's the reason why, here's the reason why I don't have the type of relationship I want. No, no, let's do a u turn and find out what's happening inside of me. I'm oversimplifying this in relationships, but let. You see what's happening inside of me, and it could be, right, that I don't open up to them, and there's a really good reason, right? There's a really good reason that that's that's happening, right? There's really good reasons why we act the way we act in relationships. There's good reasons why our parts do that. But I can be curious about why, what's going on? How are they trying to protect me? How they try to help me?

Shane Birkel 10:18
Yeah, and I, I'm imagining, if I'm, if I, let's say I just started a relationship, and I'm mad at my partner, and I'm like, I'm not going to talk to him all day today, right? There must be sort of a curiosity or an exploration, from the IFS perspective of like, is this? Is this like a Am I coming from a healthy perspective where this is just something I need, and how do I, you know, my, how does my authentic self set boundaries for myself or or is this coming from, like, a different kind of part that's just being resentful, or, you know, there's some edginess to it, or something like that. I

Tammy Sollenberger 10:58
love that. Okay, so we would not say in ifs, we would not say healthy. We would say all, all parts have a positive intention. So if I so, if I have a part of me and I totally do that, would be mad at my partner and not talk to him all day. That is not a hard reach. So if I have a part of me that's not talking to my partner, I can turn towards that part and say, Hey, with curiosity, what's going on, you know, sort of not why you're not talking to him, but maybe, where did you learn that was the best way to deal with conflict? Where did you learn that this is how you're protecting me and and can you tell me more about how not talking to him is a protective strategy, right? Sort of, where did you learn it? And it's a strategy for protection. Tell me more about how that has shown up. Because my guess is, I think this is true, that not talking to him is the way to protect myself, predates my partner. That is going to predate my partner that showed up when I was little. I guarantee it. So however we do the dance of our relationship, it often predates our partners and showed up in some way. So I can ask with with curiosity and openness and love, where did you learn that? How has that been helpful? How has that been useful? And that part may tell me, and this is where it gets a little bit weird. And so I'm open for people's, you know, skeptical parts, the part will tell me and show me Oh, at three, not talking to mom or shutting down was a way to keep myself safe, because then nobody would yell at me. I was, you know, I was safe. I wouldn't say anything wrong, you know, whatever sort of it was a protective strategy in my childhood, in some way. And I think if we all turn towards our parts that do that, we will hear their stories like there is a story there that this part learned. And I, my authentic self, can hear where that story comes from. And so I might say to the part again, this is where it gets a little woo, woo. Okay, well, how old are you? Or how old do you think I am? And it might say I'm three. The story involves a three year old. It might say it thinks it thinks I'm three, or it thinks itself is three, like it can feel like it's stuck in the past. So I can say, Okay, well, I'm not I'm not three anymore. And nine, it's like, I'm not three anymore. Get it together. Grow up. No, no, no, no, no. This part really believes that it is helping me survive. Because if we think about how we grew up and being little, you know, if my mom or my caregivers didn't love me, then I could die, like, we have this, this sort of sense of like, if your caregivers don't love you or take care of you, then you're not you don't get food, right? You don't get food. You don't get shelter, nurturing. So there is this, you know, me not talking to my partner can feel like a life or death thing, right? I'm not talking to him, and I can't get out of that, right? I'm stuck in the not talking to him. It's like, I'm stuck. And even though I'm like, I wish I could talk to him, I wish I could come close to him, but I can't like, it feels like life or death. That's because it's tied to something in our childhood, because it can be life or death for us as kids, right? If I'm three and my my parents are are, you know, if I think my perspective is that they're they don't love me or not taking care of me anymore, that's my perspective, whether that's true or not. That's why these strategies are so rigid. Does that make sense?

Shane Birkel 14:22
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I love the way that you're talking about holding so much compassion for the for those parts. You know that that, you know, I imagine you you would say to that three year old, you know, it makes sense that you would go to this place, right? There's some reason why you had to do that in the situation you were growing up in, because so often it's easy for us to go into that self criticism where we're just beating ourselves up. And maybe that's a part of ourself that is the critical part, or whatever, but, but that, you know, if we can be in our authentic self, we can true. We hold that all of our parts with with love and compassion

Tammy Sollenberger 15:06
100% and what happens is we end up just with that first idea of multiplicity, a part of me that shuts down with my partner, and then another part that's mad at that, and then I'm stuck right? I'm shut down, and then I'm frustrated that I'm shut down. I want a different relationship. I want a healthier relationship, and now I'm just stuck. And so that's when it's really helpful to do this, what we call unblend, or sort of step back from those two parts. Okay, I'm here, I'm seeing the one. I'm just noticing this behavior of shut down, and then I'm noticing this criticism, and then maybe I take a deep breath, and I'm just noticing that this is what's a mapping and naming what's happening, and I'm naming this dance or this the system, right? It's internal family system, the system that's happening inside, right? The one that shuts down, and then the one that criticizes.

Shane Birkel 16:00
I feel like a lot of us have a lot of parts that are operating all the time, that we're unconscious of. You know that are we think that we're just living our life and making decisions as you're talking about that I'm thinking about how important it is just to shed light on, like, what's like to slow down and actually shed light on. Wait, where is this coming from? Right? Is that part of how you would look at it 100%

Tammy Sollenberger 16:25
well? So for people that aren't familiar with ifs that's where I would start, because, yeah, you're not aware that you're in part. So as you go through your day, just notice, like, is it? It? You're going to notice it in your either your body or your feelings or your thoughts, like most of us are going to notice it stronger in one of those areas. And so just as you go throughout your day, notice, okay, do I have a thought of, you know, in our relationships, the best way to do it, because we're going to have a thought of of, you know, either he drives me crazy, or I wish she would do this, or whatever that is, whatever, whatever we notice sort of a triggering event or sort of a change. Just begin to think of that as a part of you, how a part of me believes blank. A part of me feels blank. A part of me is behaving blank, or has an urge to do blank, okay, huh? When I just noticed that, or I notice a part of me feels, I'm noticing an anxiety in my chest. I'm noticing this sort of shakiness of my hands. Okay, so there's a part of me that's having some bodily sensations, or what if I just consider this a part, or just start naming it as a part, and then let's just see what happens. Let's just start naming things as parts of us, just like I did when we started right. There's a part of me that was like, it needs to be perfect. Just begin to think about or consider this idea. A part of me is overwhelmed, like, name a feeling, as you're noticing or going through your day, name a feeling, and then just notice it. What's it like that? Not all of me is having this feeling. A part of me is overwhelmed. Not all of me is overwhelmed because a part of me is overwhelmed. And there's a part of me that's annoyed that I'm overwhelmed. Okay, just notice what happens. I'm overwhelmed, and there's a reaction to that. So I think that's sort of how to begin. This is just sort of this reframe in parts language. Here is the I don't make anything happen. Just notice what is happening, like what is happening as you go through your day. And how can you start naming those things as parts.

Shane Birkel 18:21
Yeah, that's great. That's a great starting point. I'm wondering if, um, because you, you had mentioned, uh, before we started recording something about, like, some common things that come up with couples. You know, maybe like, one person's part who seeking connection and the other person's part who's seeking distance or protection or something. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about, you know, some of that that you see often in relationships?

Tammy Sollenberger 18:48
Yeah. So what happens in couples is that our parts trigger each other, right? So if I have a part that says I really want to be with my partner 99% of the time, like, when we're not working, I really, I like being together all the time. I like doing fun stuff with him. Like, I really want that kind of connection. So that's the connection. Like, I want to be together 99% of the time, and that's what I want, and that's what I need. That's what my system tells me that I need. And he has, his system is different, is wired differently, his family, sort of, his system is different, and he wants to be together. Let's, I don't know why I'm giving numbers, let's take 80% of the time, right? He still wants to be together, like he wants to have a lot of connection, but his looks like 80 and so in my system, that's going to feel like distance, right? That's going to feel like it could potentially feel like abandonment or betrayal or rejection, like my system could potentially feel those ways because of this closeness and distance dance that we have in relationships, even if we both want to be close, right? 99 and 89 or whatever numbers I said, I don't do numbers. That's why I'm like, why am I saying numbers? I don't know. I can't remember,

Shane Birkel 20:00
so, oh, it's working to illustrate the point. It makes sense. Yeah, okay, good,

Tammy Sollenberger 20:04
good, good. So, so we both want that, right? We both want to be really close, but there is a difference. And of course, we're two different humans, like this is never going to be the same. Or even if we both want connection, we might want it at different times, or both have different energies, or there's something that's going to be a closeness and distance dance and relationship, I think, is super common as, how do we navigate that? Like, how do we negotiate closeness and distance in relationships? And so if we look inside, like, if I look inside and I say, Okay, who wants to be connected? Like, who inside of me feels like they need to have that connection? And can I be curious about that? And maybe what it is actually is, can I be curious about what happens for me when I feel the disconnection? Because that's probably where I'm going to feel it. I'm probably not going to really feel it in the seeking. I could feel in the seeking, right a part of me that's seeking, and then a part of me that gets hurt when it doesn't happen. So I can pay attention to either one of those, either the seeking it or the the hurt or the dysregulation that happens when it doesn't happen. Does that make sense? Yeah. And then I can just turn towards towards both of those parts of me, just like I did earlier, right? With the one that that stonewalls and say, like, Okay, where did you learn these rules about relationships? Where did you learn these messages that you know, if he says, Hey, I actually, you know, need to do paperwork for another hour before we go out to dinner, and I'm like, so where did I learn that that means that he doesn't love me, or that he, you know, isn't he's not safe and he's not going to take care of me, that our parts come up with, right? Like, if he says, I need another hour for paperwork. Parts of me are like, he's not safe and he's not going to take care of me. We're done right? Like, that's another part of me says that's ridiculous. But if I can get the ridiculousness and that critic to step aside, and I can turn towards the parts that feel so hurt and find out where, Where's that coming from? Because it doesn't really match right? It doesn't really match the situation. So what's happening? What's happening inside of me, that my system is really it's responding that way. Because what's going to happen, though? So between us, what's going to happen though, is, if I am like, an hour of paperwork, no way. I am hurt and disappointed and devastated, he's going to go more distant. There's where the parts are going to right? So I'm like, No, and I'm going to grab on, and I'm going to try to grab him, and he's going to be like, his part's going to be like, No way, no. Grabby, grabby. And then he's going to push way back, Mm, hmm, right? And then that's going to create that's going to so there's my parts going to trigger his parts, his part's going to trigger my parts. And now we're not even going out to dinner anymore. Our night is ruined.

Shane Birkel 22:44
Yeah, yeah. And I love the way you're talking about, like, the meaning that we make up about these types of situations, right? Because I feel like there's a lot of opportunity to well, and how would you navigate that conversation with that part of yourself? I mean, because I feel like there could be a balance between validating, if you're talking to like, a three year old, part of yourself, and you're like, oh my gosh, you know, it makes sense that you feel so alone and afraid. Like, you know you want to have compassion and validation, but but also, like, is there some sort of explain, like, Hey, do like, when you're saying, like, do we need to look at it this way? Like, or some, I don't know, how do you handle that?

Tammy Sollenberger 23:26
I love that. So I think that even in the moment when that happens, you can notice that, okay, there's a part in me that's having a really big reaction to this, and that doesn't super make sense. So it points me to sort of a younger part that has this sort of rigid because they're younger, they think differently than us, right as adults, that like, yeah, if, if mom says she's going to be home, or, you know, we're gonna go get McDonald's, and then she says, Oh, I need to wait an hour. That feels different to a kid, that does to me as an as an adult. And so I can say with that validation of like, hey, hey buddy. Like, I get that that's really painful. And, like, so I'm validated. I'm validating it, and I'm kind of giving it an update of, like, I'm going to validate that that is really painful to you, and then there's a separation, right? So that I'm not totally overwhelmed by the feelings of that part. I'm naming it as a part, like, a part of me is disappointed and really upset that I have to wait another hour, or that he's he said we'd be ready at seven, and now it's going to be eight. I really feel that upset. But part of me is upset about that. I have this, you know, lots of upset about that. So then I unblend. There's a part of me is really upset. I can feel a little bit calmer in my body, and then I can turn towards that and say, Hey, I get that like, I tell me, tell me why that's upsetting. To tell me the meaning you're making of it, etc. And I'm doing that with some space, but it's not so flooding. And then I can validate that, yeah, of course that's upsetting. We're really looking forward to going out to dinner, and we got ready, and we managed our. Whole day to be ready by this time. And it's really disappointing. And I really get that you're disappointed, like, Of course you are. And you know, we're okay, we're okay with him, and you know, what do you and then this other so sort of this update. It's like, we're okay, and let's What else can we do for this hour? How do you want to spend this time and and maybe this part, then I'm going to say, here's other things I'm going to I'm going to validate, and then I'm going to update, validate and update, and then I'm going to ask the part, what does it need for me? What do you need from me? Not from him, from me, yeah. What do you need from me right now? Yeah. And she might say, I need you to tell him that that's not okay, right, that that we have an expectation, and we need to communicate differently. The difference is I so I can turn to her or to this part of me. It could be, or her could. It doesn't have to be, but I could turn to to this part and say, What do you need from me, not from him? And then I can hear that. And she might say, or it might say, I need you to talk to him. I need you to tell him. And so the difference here, and I think this is really important, than I adult me, is talking to him and I can speak for a part of me, versus letting this younger part. So if the younger part spoke to him, it would sound probably whiny and bratty and and it would create distance, right? It would, it would trigger part of him, if my, if my younger part talked to him, it would trigger a younger part of him, definitely. So I can right, so I can turn towards my younger part and hear what she has to say, and then, and then I can go to him and say, Hey, hon, like I was really disappointed, like adult me. Can. I can speak for that. I can speak for my disappointment, my hurt, my frustration. And then I can say, how do we navigate that differently? Adult me, and that is going to be that is going to trigger adult him, hopefully, right? And if it's not, if he does, if he gets defensive, because he already knows I'm upset, and defensiveness is a part, so part of him gets defensive. Adult me is going to hear that differently, and I can say, Okay, I hear that part of you, honey. I hear that part of you that's defensive, and just check and see I'm not attacked. Like, sort of, I am not that. Like, I'm not attacking you, but like, like, I hear, I hear the defensive part of you, and even saying that potentially validates that for him, and maybe even calms him down a little bit.

Shane Birkel 27:33
All the married people listening are imagining their partner as a five year old acting like a five year old, right now, right? Um, well, that's

Tammy Sollenberger 27:39
what happens, right? My five year old triggers your five year old or 13 year olds acting, you know, 13 year olds or, yeah, that's what happens. That's what happens. Of course, that does. But

Shane Birkel 27:50
I love, I love how you describe I mean, so our as our authentic self, we can we really become the caretaker for that part of ourself and and I love that, because then it's not dependent on something from our partner in order for us to be okay. And I think that's really empowering for people, and I think it's really important, right? Because, you know, I often, it often feels when I'm having conversations with couples sometimes, or within myself, right? That it's like I need something from my partner in order for me to be okay, and then, and maybe that doesn't work for my partner that day, and then I feel really helpless and hopeless and lost, because it's like I can't I can't feel okay until someone else does something. And I think the way you're talking about it, it's completely within my control to be able to get to the point where I can regulate myself,

Tammy Sollenberger 28:47
yes, yes. And I don't want to discount, you know, the idea not to be extreme. I'm going to go ahead and be extreme here, not you know, if my if my partner, hit me or yelled at me like it's, it's, it's, or threw something across the room. You know it's not, it's still, it's not all or nothing. Like, yes, it's my job to take care of my internal system. Yes. And if my partner's responding that way, we still are. We still are affected by our partners, and we are still greatly affected by them. And so it's not like, but

Shane Birkel 29:24
I would look at it like boundaries, like, like, I value myself so much that I'm willing to say from my authentic self, like, hey, it's not okay if you throw stuff across the room. I'm not okay with that. I don't feel safe. Like, like, that's coming from a place of empowerment that's that's not coming from my younger self, you know, feeling anxious, which might be something people need to really like, diff like, that's a hard thing to work on, differentiating over time. Like, what parts of these things are just healthy boundaries for me? And sometimes that is because of. Know, certain parts of me need those things, and that's okay too for people to identify but, but I hear what you're saying For sure,

Tammy Sollenberger 30:07
yeah, and I love that. And I think one of the ways we can really feel that is adult me. Let's say my partner threw something across the room in anger. Adult me is not going to like that, right? That's scary, that feels threatening, that is I make meaning out of that, like a lot of stuff happens for me and as a as an adult, but adult me has more resources, right? I know I have keys, I have a car, I can walk, I have friends, I can get out of the house, but I have more I have more resources to help me deal with that. Little girl me feels scared on a completely different level, right? Like it's still the adult me has its own set of feelings, but little girl me is the fear of little girl me, because little girl me does not have, did not have the resources, right? I'm stuck in this family. I'm so it's it's traumatizing in a completely different way, and so we can potentially notice that in our body, right, like it's still scary, like it's scary, and I'm not discounting that, but when it triggers younger parts of us, there's a different urgency and emergency that happens because because these younger parts do not have the resources that we do as they can walk out of their house,

Shane Birkel 31:24
yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, I don't, I don't claim to know much about ifs. This is just my own language, but I think that the younger parts feel, often feel much more stuck and hopeless and like there is nothing I can do in this situation, whereas our authentic selves would feel more like the agency, like, like you said, I'm going to go grab my car keys, I'm going to walk out of the house and I can, you know, set boundaries for myself. And there's that feeling of empowerment,

Tammy Sollenberger 31:55
yeah, like you said earlier, strength, right? There's a feeling of strength that I have as an adult that and of course, in the moment, I'm not going to have a lot of strength. Lot of strength, but it's still scary and it's still awful, but there is a strength as an adult that that I'm going to have that's that's accessible to me, that's not when you're little.

Shane Birkel 32:13
Yeah, that's great. And I'm wondering too, you know, a lot of the things you've talked about, I can imagine sitting with a therapist and helping the therapist, helping me work through the you know, identifying those parts are these things that people can do for themselves or learn how to do for themselves 100%

Tammy Sollenberger 32:32
so I would start with just noticing, like we talked about earlier. Just start reframing in parts language. Just start noticing like symptoms or characteristics or feelings or thoughts as maybe being a part of you, or think about like a change you want to make, or something you want to even like a healthy habit, like the drinking more water, like whatever healthy thing you want to start doing, start thinking about that being a part of you, wanting to start that. And then maybe there's another part of you that doesn't right? A part of me wants to, you know, eat more kale, and, you know, eat more fruit in the summertime. And another part of me is like, Let's go have ice cream every night, right? Like, those are two very real parts of me, and they both want me to have something yummy. They both want me to be happy, right? They both have these positive intentions for me. So, so, yeah, I would just start with naming and noticing these parts. We tend to have major we call them your major players that are pretty similar. So you can even start writing them down. You could start not that you want to notice or kind of point out your parts, parts of your partner, but you could have a conversation with your partner about that, right? Just start using that part language. You know, part of me was really hurt when you did blah, blah blah blah blah. That is actually a calmer, gentler conversation than, like, I'm really hurt when you did blah, blah blah blah blah, like a part of me was really hurt. And let's see what happens when you just start using that language in relationship, and what happens then when they pick it up? Because that's what happens. People automatically pick up this part language, because it's so organic and it makes so much sense, they'll start picking it up too. And so what happens when we have conversations with our partners? Just about a part right? When my partner says to me, a part of me was really angry when you did blah, blah, blah, I am less reactive. I'm like, Yeah, part of you was angry. Okay, yeah, that makes sense to me, and I can, I can stay in a conversation like that.

Shane Birkel 34:24
I can imagine how helpful that would be, both for myself to to feel like I can stay in the conversation if I'm using that kind of language, like a part of me is feeling hurt or something, but but also for my they're going to feel much less blamed and criticized if I'm using that kind of language too? Yeah,

Tammy Sollenberger 34:42
definitely, definitely. So it's going to be less triggering their parts, right? My parts trigger their parts. Their parts trigger my parts. And so right, if I can speak for, you know, part of me was upset, it's going to be less triggering for their parts. And then maybe they can speak for their parts too. And then we're we can have a lovely. Self led conversation, ideally,

Shane Birkel 35:03
and I think that it implies the meaning making, or it's more likely to that my authentic self loves you and cares about you. I know that your authentic self loves me and cares about me. And there's these parts of us that are kind of getting in the way. You know? There's these parts of us that have needs that make these, some of these conversations difficult, but it helps you. It helps you, sort of like, stay grounded in the the true, you know, foundation of the relationship. I would think,

Tammy Sollenberger 35:33
yeah, I love that. Well, here's the thing about our parts. Our parts are protective of us. They're looking at us. They're protective of us, they, they could sometimes care less about our relationship, right? They are there to so the part of you that's not talking to your spouse could care less about your relationship. It's protecting you. It's sort of like, right? It's, it's for your survival, right? It doesn't, it doesn't care, or maybe doesn't even know that you're in a relationship. So parts can have these really limited perspectives of right? It just is focused on you. I had a sweet colleague that passed away, and he told me one time, you're about parenting, and he said some of your parts do not love your son. And I was like, what? Wow, because your parts are protecting you. They don't care about they don't even care, or even know, or, you know, some of them do, obviously. And I, you know, I'm obsessed with him, and think he's the best thing in the whole world, but there are parts of me that are protecting me. And so when he acts 13, because he's 13 and he acts 13, it can trigger my 13 year old, who does not care that he's my son and is the best thing in the whole world, right? That part of me is protecting me and sees that I'm hurt, and so it acts like a 13 year old does when a 13 year old's hurt, because it's protecting me.

Shane Birkel 36:57
I love that that's that's so valuable, that can be so valuable for people to sort of take that in. Give a little plug for your podcast. Who would that be good for people to listen to? I mean, who would be the audience for that? What can people learn from and say the name of it again, too?

Tammy Sollenberger 37:13
Yeah. So the podcast is called The One Inside, and my book is also called The One Inside. So let me say this. So my book, I think this is probably going to be more helpful. The book is really a fantastic someone called it an ifs for dummies. It's a simple, really accessible way just to begin to start learning or understanding your own system and start noticing your parts. So it's a 30 day walk through your own system. So it's really great introduction ifs little, bite sized pieces, so you don't have to know ifs to do it, just be curious and open. And yes, I think that would be great for people that are new and are curious. The podcast I interview people in the IFS world, so it's going to be a higher level. I mean, it definitely could be for people that are curious. We just put up a Start Here, tab category on my website and on the one inside podcast YouTube channel, which is five episodes of a plate. It's just a great place to start. It has the founder of ifs dicks has been on the podcast a couple of times, and so there's one with him. There's just, there's five really good kind of intro to ifs episodes, and that will be a great place to start. So it's start here at the one inside YouTube channel and at my website, which is TammySollenberger.com

Shane Birkel 38:33
Great, great. Well, thank you so much, Tammy, this I've, I have learned a lot, and so grateful for you coming on, and hopefully we can catch up again at some point in the

Tammy Sollenberger 38:45
future. That sounds great. Shane, it's really good to hang out with you.

Shane Birkel 38:49
That's Tammy Sollenberger, thank you so much, Tammy. I'm so grateful for you and so grateful for all you listeners out there. Definitely Subscribe to the show and leave a rating or a review. If you're enjoying the show, please share it with other people you think would benefit from it. Also, right now, I'm opening up a summer cohort, just for a few people to be able to join the couples therapist inner circle. That's the membership where you can have personal connection with me and a bunch of other therapists to talk about couples therapy and really take your practice to the next level. There's also hundreds of hours of recordings of past question and answers, many workshops, all kinds of resources and educational materials. So if you're interested in that, definitely click on the link in the show notes, or go to CouplesTherapistCouch.com. And hope all of you have a great week. This is Shane Birkel, and this is The Couples Therapist Couch. Thanks, everybody!