228: A Soulful Marriage with Dr. Rachel Glik

Welcome back to The Couples Therapist Couch! This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

In this episode, Shane discusses A Soulful Marriage with Dr. Rachel Glik. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots, and watch it on YouTube – follow and leave a 5-star review.

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The Couples Therapist Couch 228: A Soulful Marriage with Dr. Rachel Glik

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In this episode, Shane talks with Dr. Rachel Glik about her brand-new book, A Soulful Marriage. Rachel is a licensed professional counselor who has counseled individuals, couples, and families in private practice for over 30 years. In A Soulful Marriage, she breaks down how to heal your relationship with responsibility, growth, priority, and purpose. Hear the seemingly out-of-body experiences that can happen in a therapy room, why conflict & friction can be a good thing in a relationship, the 4 pillars of a soulful marriage, how to focus on listening & develop good communication in a relationship, and how to prioritize your partner - even after you’ve had kids. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:

• Dr. Rachel Glik's book, A Soulful Marriage
• The Four Pillars that maintain a successful marriage
• Why does it matter to cultivate respect as a parent?
• How to get over the wall of a stunted sex life?
• What are the different types of friendships in marriage?

Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below: 

 Show Notes

• 228: A Soulful Marriage with Dr. Rachel Glik
• [0:31] Join the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new
• [1:42] Introducing Dr. Rachel Glik
• [2:40] How did Dr. Rachel decide to be a couple's therapist?
• [4:09] Does A Soulful Marriage include any of Dr. Rachel's personal stories?
• [4:44] What inspired the book?
• [7:01] What would be an example of something that's counterintuitive in the book?
• [10:10] The Four Pillars of a soulful marriage
• [12:39] Participating in a shared delusion of being responsible for your partner's happiness
• [15:09] Pillar 2: Growth
• [20:15] What are the different types of friendships in marriage?
• [23:08] What meaning are you making up about your situation?
• [24:07] Pillar 3: Priority
• [27:49] What does your spouse do that makes you know that you are the most important other person in their life other than their relationship with themselves?
• [28:58] Where to prioritize kids in a step family dynamic?
• [30:19] Understanding Stan Tatkin's couple bubble
• [33:06] Cultivating respect from your children
• [34:42] Pillar 4: Purpose
• [38:50] What do we want to do with our life?
• [39:42] Should you read all of A Soulful Marriage or focus on the content most applicable to  your conflict?
• [42:11] How to get over the wall of a stunted sex life?
• [43:04] The best place to find A Soulful Marriage book?
• [44:05] Dr. Rachel Glik's last thought for the audience 
• [44:45] Leave a review! 

 

What is The Couples Therapist Couch?

This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Many of the episodes are interviews with leaders in the field of Relationships. The show is meant to help Therapists and Coaches learn how to help people to deepen their connection, but in the process it explores what is most needed for each of us to love, heal, and grow. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

Learn more about the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/

Find out more about the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new

Transcript

Please note: Transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:00

So I would suggest asking your partner, do you feel like a priority? And does anything get in the way that sometimes you feel less special or that I'm not as important?

 

00:15

Welcome to The Couples Therapist Couch, the podcast for couples therapists, marriage counselors, and relationship coaches to explore the practice of couples therapy. And now, your host, Shane Birkel.

 

00:31

Hey everybody, welcome back to The Couples Therapist Couch. This is Shane Birkel and this is the podcast that's all about the practice of couples therapy. Thank you so much for tuning in. Just a real quick reminder. You have a few more days if you're thinking about signing up for the Couples Therapist Inner Circle, it's a really good option for people who enjoy the podcast, who enjoy learning about couples therapy and you want to take your practice to the next level. There's a lot of

 

00:56

really good trainings and direct feedback that you can get about the cases you're working on. So click the link below if you're interested in that. You can learn more about all the details. I'm really excited to share with you the episode this week. I spoke with Dr. Rachel Glik, who just published a new book called A Soulful Marriage. So you can find that on Amazon. And we talked, one of my favorite things about our conversation was...

 

01:21

her talking about the four pillars that can transform any relationship. So we're just gonna dive right in without further introduction. Here is the interview with Dr. Rachel Glik. Hey everyone, welcome back to the couple's therapist couch. This is Shane Birkel. And today I'm speaking with Dr. Rachel Glik, licensed counselor and author of the new book, A Soulful Marriage. Hey Rachel, welcome to the show. Thank you, hello. Nice to see you, Shane. I'm so excited to talk about the book.

 

01:50

It's great to see you too. And why don't you start by telling everyone a little bit more about yourself. So I have been an individual and couples counselor for over 30 years. And I'm married for 36 and have two adult children and one grandson. And I'm just really passionate about, I love the therapy profession. It just never ceases to offer fulfillment and growth.

 

02:19

And this book was just the next step that I felt compelled to do. So it's a kind of a life's work on some level that I hope keeps continuing. Yeah, that's great. Before we get into the book stuff, I'm curious, because I'm just thinking about the timeline. So you got married and then a few years later you decided to become a therapist or... Yeah. Did you know at that time it was specifically a couples therapist or?

 

02:46

No, I wasn't at all. In fact, I was getting my doctorate in industrial organizational psychology because I was always told that I'm too sensitive, you know, and so I wouldn't be able to handle people's problems. So I kind of just did everything except what I really wanted to do on some level. So, you know, over a course of circuitous route, I end up landing in the counseling program. And so I was already married at that point when I switched to that.

 

03:13

And so then really wasn't gonna go into couples counseling. I was really interested in working in trauma and healing individuals, which I still do. And then it just evolved. The need was so great. And then my husband and I went through some marriage challenges that taught me so much over a long period of time in terms of the lessons just unfolded over a long period of time. And so it just felt like it was a message from the universe that I needed to help couples. So then I became really a specialist, my specialty.

 

03:41

has been with couples and families too. Yeah, that's great. I just think it's so interesting for all of us as therapists that sort of have the educational side of it and the professional side of it, but also the personal side of it. Most of us have gone through our own stuff or trying to figure out our own stuff just as human beings and how that fits in with our professional life as well. But yeah, I don't know.

 

04:09

Do you talk about your personal, you mentioned your personal relationship stuff a little bit. Do you talk about that in the book at all? I do. Yeah. It's not a memoir, you know, like I do talk about our relationship in the book, spattered throughout. And I also talk about different cases that are, you know, they're amalgamation of cases that I put together so that it protects people's privacy, but I use a lot of case examples. But when I used my relationship, I use it in just really important, potent moments.

 

04:38

of things like aha moments for my husband and I that really switched the course of the quality of our connection. Yeah, that's great. And what inspired you to write the book? It really came from a yearning, almost to alleviate a certain pain inside myself when I would complete a therapy session, a couples one. And I'm not sure if you guys can relate to this, but sometimes it's just like an out of body experience where it just...

 

05:08

It's so creative and it's so intuitive what happens. And it was really kind of magical at times. And I say that with humility, like it wasn't me, like it just was this beautiful thing happening, the three of us. And I just felt like sad and like this like missing thing that other people need to learn more from this and to try to reach more people. So I just, for about 10 years, so I would pick it up and put it down and pick it up and put it down.

 

05:35

for a lot of negative thoughts I had, is it really needed in the world? Like, can I afford the time it's gonna take to do it? Who's gonna read it? Those kinds of things, but I just got clear that I just needed to do it to try to reach more people who I'm not meeting within my office. Yeah, I like the way you're saying that as far as you have that experience in the therapy room where you're witnessing a couple...

 

06:04

transforming and having insight and changing their relationship and growing. And it's, I think a really beneficial endeavor to try to put that into words somehow, right? Cause sometimes very difficult to sort of put like, think back and say, Whoa, what, what happened there? What worked there? You know? So that's really cool that you, that's how I'm hearing it at least that you kind of wanted to try to put that into words and try to help couples to see.

 

06:32

here's some insight that I've gained from working with couples. It could be helpful for a lot of other people too. Yeah. And I, my hope is for it to reach other therapists too. For sure. To incorporate some of the things that are in the book are counterintuitive a bit. I still recommend lots of good relationship books, but like I felt like there are some unique things that I wanted to share that we were a privilege to learn. I was hoping for other therapists to have a chance to learn too. Yeah.

 

07:01

What would be an example of something that's counterintuitive in the book? Good question. I think, well, the book is based on four pillars, which are four states of mind or four consciousnesses as like a guide to how you want to conduct yourself in your relationship. But one of them is the idea that your conflict or your friction is a good sign and not a bad sign.

 

07:28

course, it's how you handle the conflict that makes all the difference, but there's still so many misunderstandings and kind of aversions to friction. We want things comfortable, we want smooth sailing, and then we deem that it must be a bad sign about our relationship if we're having conflict, and it's really the opposite. It's, we're, and from what I study the wisdom of Kabbalah, and my husband does too, is a universal spiritual wisdom that's very psychological too. It really overlaps.

 

07:55

with kind of human understanding the human being and how we evolve and how we find fulfillment. And so in that scenario, it's really through our most difficult times that reveals who we're meant to become and how we can hewn ourselves and how we can grow individually and also closer together. So it's not like I'm suggesting to go looking for fights or being messy about it and go on tirades,

 

08:25

when it's going to happen, it's going to be organic. You'll have some sort of disconnection or conflict or hurt feeling or a difference. You just don't know how to navigate together and to kind of slow down and be curious about what might be trying to reveal itself. That's even better for me as a person to cultivate my qualities and, you know, create a stronger bond with more trust and more strength in our relationship.

 

08:54

So that's one, and that's pillar two, which is growth. And that's when people are usually coming to therapy for most of us couples counselors, is they're having trouble with their differences and they don't know how to navigate them. Yeah, no, I love that. I think that people get beliefs about relationships from movies and the media and things like that. And they think that, if this was true love, then everything would just fall right into place and we wouldn't have any conflict or any stress, right?

 

09:23

And so the way I hear you saying this is that, you know, you're sort of normalizing that conflict. Like if you're experiencing that, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you or your relationship necessarily, but it could be an opportunity to explore and to grow, which I love that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, you know, it's hard when it's happening. But when you really, like my husband and I, even just a couple of Sundays ago, we had some conflict. And we just like, you know, we had in the backdrop that...

 

09:53

while we waited till we calmed down to address it, we both had this back backdrop of consciousness that this is here to help us grow. And let's see what we'll do with this. Yeah. Great, great. Well, would it be helpful to go through the four pillars? I don't wanna make you do that if you don't want to, but. No, no, I love it. I love talking about the four pillars. Yeah, great.

 

10:16

And they're not mine, these are things I've learned. You know, I have to clarify that. I'm not inventing anything. And it's just that I've had the privilege of being exposed to things that I find, you know, really powerful and helpful. So the first one is, pillar one is responsibility. And that means, the consciousness is, that we are each responsible for our own happiness and wellbeing. And it's like your relationship with yourself.

 

10:42

is number one, you have to really take ownership over that and not expect your partner to be the sole focus of making you happy. It also demystifies the idea that we can just wing it in a relationship. No, we have to keep growing. We have to keep working on ourselves. We have to work on our self-love and our self-awareness and develop ourselves and examine ourselves and take care of ourselves. We kind of owe that to ourselves and the relationship. Yeah. And even that can be counterintuitive. I think.

 

11:12

a lot of people enter into a relationship thinking that my partner's going to fulfill everything that I need and take care of the things that I need. And I think that's such an important part of growing and maturing is realizing that I am responsible for my own wellbeing and myself. Exactly. And that was personal. Like my husband and I had our first like...

 

11:40

that we had in our relationship or just like, I didn't think I'd ever not feel close and connected to him. I was so sure about him as my maid. And then a couple of years married in, I just started feeling empty. And I realized that I really had to face myself. I was still hiding kind of behind the energy wave of the limeret, you know, the love and finding new love and finding each other and our future together. And then, you know, the dust settled. And it was, I had to face me again.

 

12:09

and I was thinking there was something wrong in the marriage or him, when really it was because I was holding him unknowingly, you know, holding him responsible for my fulfillment and my sense of self too much. Even though I was already exploring, getting my doctorate and you know, like, but these, these are quiet whispers inside oneself that when you're honest with yourself, you can discover. And my husband grew up in a household where he saw the dad, his dad was doing triple time trying to keep his wife happy.

 

12:39

is my husband's mom. So he grew up with that, that's my job. I just have to make her happy. I need to make her happy. So we were in this shared delusion that needed to crash and needed to crash and burn. And then we were both so relieved actually that, oh, okay. You know, he could let go and be caring and loving, but not feel responsible for my happiness. And then I had to get busy with finding myself and kind of individuating from what I thought everybody thought I should be and all that good stuff. Yeah.

 

13:08

Yeah, well, that's scary, I think, for people to, you know, all of us come into relationships with certain expectations and to begin to sort of see that maybe what we thought wasn't true, you know, maybe my partner isn't going to fulfill all my needs and make me totally happy and I am responsible for myself. That's a little bit terrifying on some level. And I think that's part of the growth process is sort of letting go of those types of expectations. Yep.

 

13:37

And they creep in, like, you know, even when I'm thinking of this one woman that I met with them as a couple, and I meet with her a little bit more individually now, but like, I would share that idea with her and she would seem like she gets it. I know, you know, like, but it was still where she was really, and this is human, I'm not judging her whatsoever, this is what we all do, she was still steeped in what she needed to change about her partner, that there's no way she could be fulfilled unless he.

 

14:04

showed up more, you know, to be more present emotionally, which is true, he did need to work on that, but the level of holding of her own North Star that she was giving him was what needed to switch. It just was, they couldn't get anywhere until she, and so one day she got it. It's so exciting when that happens, right? And she just like really got it, that she just, she needs to accept him more for where he is and needs to take more responsibility for her own happiness and not getting so much pressure on him.

 

14:32

to be who he really isn't. He's an engineer. He's not gonna become really into emotional conversations. So, and then it just, and then from there, she just got stronger and stronger and they got stronger. And he also did work on showing up better. He did too. Yeah. Yeah, great. I think that can be such a difficult thing. People do understand these concepts a lot consciously, but to actually...

 

14:59

sort of embody it and begin to sort of like let it sink in can be a lot more difficult. Absolutely. Yeah. That's pillar one. Yeah. Two, I mentioned earlier, which is what usually people jump right into because they haven't been working on pillar one, they're already at pillar two, which is they're having so much friction, they don't, they're not getting anywhere with it. So pillar two is growth. And that is that we use our friction, our differences, any of that.

 

15:27

to help us grow individually and closer together. And so it's a mindset, it's an attitude, it's a consciousness about how you view your purpose. That's why the book is a soulful marriage because it's got a lot of purpose in it. It's bigger picture conversations about how you can awaken your own soul and connect to the other person at a deeper level as well. And share something that's bigger than just satisfying your needs together.

 

15:56

You're actually accomplishing something really profound and creating something that wasn't there before. You're creating your own individual. You're creating a bond that is like a sanctuary of sorts. So the growth is to see your friction as a good sign and to learn that the growth section is the longest section in the book. It's, you know, I don't know, like eight, nine chapters of, you know, out of 21. Because there's so much about retraining ourselves to...

 

16:25

learn how important it is to invest effort into embracing friction, learning how to be better at communicating when there is friction. So a lot of teaching about healthy communication in that section. Yep. And in that section, I talk about the problems, what creates the conflict. And so I have something called the marriage wheel. And it's...

 

16:52

a wheel that has eight different friendships. There's different, I've come to see that in modern relationships, there's eight different unique relationships we have within that marriage. You know, it's in that section on growth, it's good to kind of assess how we strong and which friendships are we strong in and which ones are weaker. And then you can, you know, it helps you see kind of where we're isolated. So it's not like the whole relationship is conflictual. It's just this one spoke, you know, is where we have the most conflict or.

 

17:22

And then from there, like, you know, how you can close those gaps and how you can, you know, you can't get anywhere if you can't communicate well. It's not enough just to be good communicators. It has to be these other, it has to have all four pillars, really. But if you, if you can't get to a place where you feel like you can talk about anything and get somewhere with it, then you really are thwarting the purpose of the, of coming together and the opposition that happens in your conflicts. So it's really reframing friction in so many ways. It's counterintuitive. Like.

 

17:52

people don't realize that they actually need to become skilled at this. We don't, and I think it's in the foreword or the preface that I say that I wish that if I could influence school curriculum, it would be two things. Starting as early as preschool to learn active listening skills. So learn what we've learned of being therapists, you know? And even then it's hard to listen, even when you're trained in it. It's just a hard skill for a human being to put our own thoughts and needs and...

 

18:19

desire to express ourselves aside to really hear someone to make sure they know we got it. And then the second thing would be to learn what it takes to create lasting, loving relationship in middle school and in high school and especially your relationship with yourself starting with that and how you can... So that's pillar two. Yeah, no, I love that. I think that the language we use, the way we communicate is very much intertwined with

 

18:48

the something you said at the beginning, which was like the mindset or the way they see the world. You know, if I'm using language, like you did this to me or something, that's more blaming, you know, that's very different than using language about my experience, my perspective, my feelings. And so I think, you know, when we're talking about some, a lot of times couples, you know, realize that they don't have good communication. But

 

19:17

I think that's something that therapy can be so helpful with is connecting that also to some deeper themes that are playing out in the communication and really the whole way they see the world in some ways or their expectations about getting their needs met. It's so true. There's so much learning that I think is part of good couples therapy where we have these myths or we haven't even thought about it and we're on autopilot.

 

19:46

that really aren't serving, that are really creating barriers to the relationship moving forward. And I think you're right, like it makes sense. Like throughout the communication, you can start unearthing so many things. Their beliefs about the relationship and even maybe beliefs about themselves and what they, you know, what they're maybe carrying out from childhood too is showing up in the relationship. Absolutely right. Yeah. And I had a question about the

 

20:15

within the marriage and you don't have to go through all eight right now. Maybe we can after we go through the four pillars. But what do you mean by the different friendships or thinking about the wheel and thinking different sections of that? Yeah. It was a fun thing. It was one of my favorite parts of writing the book was getting to try to draw. I like drawing. I like to see things how they look visually. So if you picture a wheel with eight or pieces of a pie, basically eight pieces of pie.

 

20:45

And then there's a tire around the wheel, and that's communication. And then there's a hub, which is desire, like desire to grow, desire for the relationship. But the eight different parts are things like your emotional friendship and your sexual, physical friendship. You can call them facets, you can call them intimacies, whatever, I just call them friendships. But then there's the domestic and your parenting, if your parents have...

 

21:15

animals, recreational, those are some examples. Like there's just different financial, like we have different facets of our relationship and some can be really, you know, we're already good there. You know, we got that down. We have no conflict. It's not where our growth is gonna be then. Your growth is gonna be in your weaker areas. So that's why you wanna reframe it and think about it as, oh good, this is where we're here to grow.

 

21:42

Oh, I love that. That's great. Those also happen to be some of the topics I hear brought up the most in couples theory that people struggle with, right? But I love the way you said that, like, these are different aspects of their relationship in their life. Yeah. I find it helps to break it down and not feel so overwhelming that just like internal family systems, you see that you have parts of you and it can not feel so overwhelming.

 

22:12

insecure or angry or addicted or whatever the people, you know, but no, this is just one part of me. Similarly, okay, so this emotional friendship, we're weak in that area, which is a very important one, but look at all these other ones and maybe, you know, let's just work on, kind of isolates. Yeah, and I suppose if they have strengths in some of them, you can celebrate that and help them feel hopeful about those things. Exactly. Yeah. Some of the strengths can compensate for some of the weaker ones.

 

22:39

till a certain point. You know, usually I find that happening. Like empty nesters, you know, like they may not have been those emotionally connected, some couples, but they were raising a family together. So they're, that's called community friendship, that they're part of a larger community, you know, with their family and their extended family or whatever. And so that covered it. And so they didn't notice, but then once the empty nest occurs, then they notice, oh gosh, we don't, I don't feel emotionally connected. And so then all of a sudden that particular one can't be.

 

23:08

compensated for anymore because the parenting one is less in focus and the community one is less in focus. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like those are areas, sometimes I would think of it like where people make up a lot of meaning, if that makes sense, like based on how I'm doing financially, what meaning am I making up about that? Or based on what our sex life looks like, what meaning am I making up about that and what it means for our relationship? And you know, you can really,

 

23:38

go to some deeper stuff, starting with some of those, the eight different, I imagine. Similar to what you just said earlier that like, you know, you can unearth by looking at, I guess it was the pillars at the time, or just whatever in communicating and really listening. But here you can kind of see where, what's your belief system around, how it's supposed to go with your finances as a couple, or what's your belief system about how emotionally connected, what does that look like to you? And I love that. Yeah, that's great. Good.

 

24:07

Let's go to number three in the pillars. Yeah. So pillar three is priority. And that this one is one of my favorites to talk about. It's like all the things that you like about cherishing, making sure your partner and your relationship is being treated in a way that it's special and it's sanctuary. And so you want to make sure you really make it a priority to fight for the relationship, to nourish the relationship, to make sure that you're not letting something get in between you and your partner, like your children.

 

24:37

Can that can happen as much as we love them and need to take care of them and they're important But you know really where is there something that's happening that your partner might feel like he's or she is You know just lower on the totem pole in your life, and if that's the case then let's let's fix that Let's make sure and even if you're feeling disconnected, and you don't want to do that You can still choose with your consciousness, and I know that's a healthy thing to do in our relationship and don't wait till you feel it

 

25:06

to make them a priority. It's important to just to show up as a person who is investing in the relationship, and then it can start to cultivate. Sometimes it's after you put in the loving, giving energy that it starts to build space for you to feel it. So priority is one that my husband actually came up with. That was his pillar. Because he realized that when I redirected my focus

 

25:36

more to him. We studied the wisdom of Kabbalah and I learned something that it was important for the kids, for he and I to be really our energy together. Since they came from us, our energy together was really important in feeding them. And for practical reasons too, like for them to watch really close relationship and for us to be really happy together and you know, we're better parents. So when I think our kids were around 8 and 11,

 

26:03

I started making him a notable shift, making him feel number one. I had three pillars originally. And for a seminar I was giving, I ran it by him and he said, okay, I love these, but there's one that really made the difference for me, which was when I felt like I was number one to you. So this is all the ways that you little things and big things you do to make your partner feel appreciated and cherished.

 

26:33

things are different for each person, the way that I feel like a priority might be different from my partner and different from other people. Yeah, absolutely. Like, do you see that? Do you see that in your own life or in your own practice? Yeah, definitely. Like, you know, sometimes people feel like they're making their partner a priority, but their partner isn't feeling like a priority. And that's part of the communication that's so important. You know, like, what are the ways in which...

 

27:01

each of us feel cherished or loved and trying to not make, like you said, just because it doesn't feel like my first instinct to do that. That doesn't mean it's like, actually, I think it makes it more meaningful if I'm willing to make the effort at it. Exactly. Even if it's not my first instincts. Yeah. That's very deep. I love that. It's so true. Yeah. It's kind of also counterintuitive. Like when it's easy and natural, you're really not.

 

27:31

awakening, you know, a true action of... And, you know, I think it is important to find out, I did this question of my friends and family who I viewed as having a relationship that they really make each other a priority. And I asked them to ask, I asked them, what is it that your spouse does that makes you know that you are the most important other person in their life other than their relationship with themselves? Like, what are the...

 

27:59

little things they do or how do you know? And I got and I put a list of them in the book. They are so sweet. Just like, you know, so it is each person is unique with how they feel special and how they feel like a priority. And they loved the question. Like, they were like, yeah, they were like so much like they each were like, thank you for asking my wife this because she's been so, you know, like appreciative of me. And, and you know, we don't we we just humanly overlook so many of the good things and we forget. So

 

28:28

So that's priority and that includes, there's a chapter on spiritual lovemaking. So on the sexual relationship and the emotional friendship. I talk about that in the priority chapter two. And it's felt like an extension of making your relationship important. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Yeah, good. Yeah, well, I guess one thing that's on my mind, which is that not putting the kids before you're, it's not about ranking or whatever, but like,

 

28:56

should the kids come first kind of thing. I talk about that a lot. And also with step families, how do you navigate that too? But it doesn't mean that you're neglecting your children. It's just, there's lots of little subtle ways that you can feed your relationship that actually is really good for the kids too. And they don't need to get your attention and what they need all the time, like we think they do. We've become so child centered, which is good, but I think the balance is...

 

29:25

This is just trying to balance it out a bit. Yeah. And I think that if you think about something like, let's say two people want to go out on a date night together and their kids are like, no, we don't want you to go and there's something really important about the modeling of, oh, I'm sorry, you know, they can validate and say, oh, I'm sorry, this is disappointing for you that we won't be here, but we're still going out anyway, because it's

 

29:55

it's okay to prioritize their relationship when they grow up and that they don't have to just do exactly what other people want them to do all the time. And I think that's how I was taking it when you were saying it. You're still making your kids a huge priority in your life and taking care of them obviously. But there's something really important about that. Stan Taggkin calls it the couple bubble.

 

30:21

That's the couple existing. Yes, I love that book. Yeah. Yeah, I love that book. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I use it so much with... I have this chart that's in there for the wave and the island to help how you talk to an island, how you talk to a wave. It just opens right to that chart because I use it so much with couples and they just take a picture of it. It's a great chart. Oh, that's great.

 

30:47

What was his first book or the most famous one? The one I have is Wired for Love. Wired for Love, yeah, that was really good. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Fantastic book, yeah. Oh yeah, it's like it's a difference between giving new kids what they need, not what they want. Because we have to see past just the instant gratification of making them feel a little uncomfortable. It's okay if they're uncomfortable. And they learn also not just to focus on themselves. That oh, me keeping it.

 

31:15

being supportive, that they behave themselves and they let you go and all that, and that you're going to do it anyway. But then they're participating in giving an action to their parents too. We just found it with our kids that they really did, it was quantum. It wasn't something that you could see as like so tangible as, oh, they felt more secure in themselves because of this specific action. But they just, we gave them more space.

 

31:45

not feel so hovered over, I think. And so energetically, they kind of had to navigate some of the things on their own was maybe we weren't, I mean, I'm not talking a big difference, but it was also like when they're in the room, do I let them interrupt me when I'm talking to my husband? No, I just, I started holding up my hand and saying, I like, you know, when we're done, I'd love to hear what you have to say, you know? But we're talking, you know? And just the little things like that, that.

 

32:10

You can ask your, so I would suggest asking your partner, do you feel like a priority and does anything get in the way that where sometimes you feel that you, less special or that I'm not as important. And in the book I have the whole section on the wet, I call it like the triangles, I think I call it, like the things that can become barriers, the things that form a triangle where you, it could be work, it could be in-laws, it could be an addiction, it could be your kids, it could be.

 

32:39

you know, some hobby that you're, you know, really obsessed with. So yeah. And with parenting, I think that kind of thing sends such an important psychological message, you know, that the world isn't going to just cater to you if you interrupt that. Exactly. Like, it's okay for people to set boundaries and it's modeling for them that they're allowed to set boundaries in their life as well. Yes. You know, so that's great. And I wanted our kids to respect us and what we have together.

 

33:06

Not because I needed the respect, but because we get more from that which we respect. And then I learned from Kabbalah too. It's like when we look up to something, that's how it comes down and gives us energy. If we see it as low, we're not going to get anything from it. So there is a little bit of like, you can't just have us whenever you want us, you know? And it's special. You're modeling respect for each other too, which is so important. Exactly.

 

33:34

if you tell the kids that they have to unload the dishwasher and then, you know, the other partner says, no, you don't have to worry about it. The, you know, the couple is sort of showing the two parents are showing disrespect to each other in the kid's eyes, you know, sort of psychologically that, um, it's just the family unit, I think can be so much healthier when the parents are aligned, when the, you know, the kids are receiving the same message, no matter which parent is there. And they know that the, the,

 

34:03

And there's a feeling of security for kids, I think. Even if they don't like unloading the dishwasher, they know that there are mature adults running the show around here or something like that. Oh, I love it that we can have this conversation. Exactly. No, that's so true. Yeah, and that's, again, sometimes counterintuitive. You know, like without being a therapist, we learn those kinds of things, but it's a difference between giving them what they want and what they need. And there's like hidden things of...

 

34:31

that children and all of us receive that are more important than the instant feel good or seeming to satisfy and making them happy in the moment or happy with us in the moment, you know? So, yeah. Definitely. Well, good, let's get to number four. Pillar four, yeah. So pillar four is the least reason people come to therapy on the outside. Nobody says I'm missing pillar four and that's why we're here.

 

34:59

But rarely. But the best kept secret is that's often why they're missing something is because they do need this, I believe. And I found that in our relationship and that is purpose. And purpose is that we make the world better through our bond. And it's where not all of your time, energy, talent, treasure, whatever, but some, you think it's a consciousness that we are here not just for us. That we've been gifted with this.

 

35:27

relationship with this, these privileges, this love and for whatever we have, you know, and that thinking bigger and not just thinking about what's your needs and what we can get from each other. And it purpose kind of goes gradually out more and more outward with the world. It starts with your relationship has a purpose. You doing all the pillars is purposeful. It has a meaning.

 

35:54

elevates our planet because more love is better and more people who are mature, raising kids who get their needs met and know how to balance boundaries with love. So your growth in your relationship and the love you create together has a purpose. It's the mindset of seeing it that way that we are doing something for the world together already. And then it's like sending out to your family, your collective, your individual family unit or if you have that.

 

36:24

your larger family, your community, people you know. But to really get the magic or the even more benefits for your marriage, your relationship is to think of how can we put our energy, our time, our support of each other and see how you might be able to take an action step and do that thing. Either you support each other and your own individual, altruistic kinds of things, and or you can come together and see what might we do together.

 

36:52

that we both have an interest in that maybe you can be the creative side and I'll be the finance side of it or whatever. And see, you know, and just having the conversation, where do you think this book is a game is an expression of that actually. It was came from a, when it really came time to do it, what pushed it along was having a conversation one day about maybe five or six years ago where we really, you know, I wanted to see how we could not just talk about this idea of purpose together, but what's our next step for really.

 

37:21

using all that we've been giving and paying it forward. We've been given and pay it forward. And so, you know, we thought we have a lot that we've learned and we've gone through a lot in our relationship and with what I do professionally, maybe we could, so my husband, so supportive of the book and is in it and little clips or even quotes from him in certain places. So the purpose doesn't have to be like, save the world right now. It could just be, you know, small, simple steps where you start putting some emphasis and dialogue together.

 

37:51

It strengthens you, I find, and it's got a sweetness to it. And you see this generosity of spirit come out in each other, and then that's contagious. And yeah, and it can help kind of like roll, smooth over some of the rough edges sometimes too. Yeah. Well, and I feel like, well, and I don't know, maybe I, I don't know if I'm understanding it totally correctly or not, but I feel like having a shared sense of purpose

 

38:21

is something that's so important for couples, just as far as like being able to talk through that and feel like, even on the level of, let's plan a vacation in a few months or something like that, where it's like, we're working together, we have something we're looking forward to, where like our relationship is moving into the future together. Like, but then, but then like you said, expanding it out to, you know, how to make the world a better place. How are we, you know, what do we want our life?

 

38:51

to be defined by how do we want to be in our communities or whatever else in the world. All of it is purpose. That's all good. Anywhere from planning a dinner party, a vacation, even working on an issue that you're trying to resolve has purpose and taking care of your children and raising kids who are balanced and also care about making a difference potentially, hopefully. Just kind of not thinking of yourselves.

 

39:17

And it takes effort because we're organically not going to have enough time. We're just not. We have such full lives doing such good things. But it's just taking some percentage. It doesn't have to be much. But if there's none of that conversation, then it's a missed opportunity. And just to see where that goes. Yeah, this is great. So would this book be good to...

 

39:42

kind of read straight through or do you feel like people skip around and look for things that are applicable to what they're going through? Yeah, it's a tricky. Because I also wanted to know, do people read this along with therapy? I imagine it could be a really helpful supplement to going through therapy as well. Yes. Well, some of this I'll learn soon because I don't have access to give clients a book or have them get a book and see how we can work it through together.

 

40:10

send them to all these other books and articles. I've written a lot of articles that have content that's in the book, but I think all of those are good. I think it could be, I know people who have read it recently because they got advanced copies and they said they just sat down and read it in like two days, you know, or it depends on how you like to read books. I imagined that it would be more, it could be that for some, but I imagine it would be like combing through to see what am I dealing with and what piques my interest. But I do think it's good to really

 

40:39

make sure you touch on the each of the pillars because they do they work in symphony together, you know, they, they like if you only do purpose pillar four, but you're not working on your communication and cherishing each other, then you become just like workhorses together. And that's not the goal. And that becomes the problem of its own. So it's really there. They create a wholeness, all four of them. I kept like thinking, is there something missing is there more than everything I kept coming back to fits into these four pillars. So I but I think you can see areas where you're

 

41:08

struggling and then dip into that area and work a little bit more on it. And then as far as like walking it through in therapy, I think I have clients read an article that I've written in Mind, Body, Green that goes over the four pillars. So I have an idea of how that works. And then they will assess, use it as an assessment. And I have an assessment in the very back of the book, an appendix, that is a questionnaire, very detailed questionnaire for how you can assess where you are on the four pillars and what areas you might need some more attention if you want. You know?

 

41:38

And so for that, I think is a therapist tool that you can weave it in as you see fit. But then if the couple has the book, then they can also read sections and talk about it together. And then you can weave it into the therapy as well, like have them come in and talk about, I'm looking forward to being able to say, okay, look at chapter seven, like I was just talking with a man about their sex life is on hold right now because they're having some problems. And so,

 

42:08

how do you get that restarted? He was like, how do you get that? So I have a whole chapter on getting over the wall. So I'm looking forward to say, OK, check out chapter 12. And then so I think you can use it diagnostically and prescriptively, in a sense, too. Yeah. Great, great. Yeah, it seems to me like, as you're talking, that it would be good to sort of.

 

42:35

kind of read through the whole book and understand all the concepts together. And then once you have a sense of the four pillars and all the concepts, then you could go back to sort of what you need, focus on what you need at that time. Yeah, exactly. And it's always, it's a constant flow and more of a circle. In fact, it reminds me at the end, I go over each, you know, pillar, I describe the consciousness that it is and it leads. This is

 

43:04

this is who I am, this is who we are, this is how we grow or whatever. And then at the end, rather than in a line, it's really a circle. Because as you're working through the pillars, you come back and it changes pillar one. You change who you are, so you're kind of always, it's an infinity, it's endlessly going. Oh, that's great, I love that. Yeah, good. Well, where's the best place people can find the book? So yeah, Amazon, Barnes & Noble.

 

43:31

There's a local place in St. Louis called Left Bank Books that's selling it. And I think even Walmart, I think I saw it on. So on my website, I have a book tab. So my website is Dr. Rachel Glik, D-R- And then I have a tab that says book and I think I have four links of different places you can order it. But if you, you know, Googled it, you could find it too.

 

43:59

and in order to Amazon. Yeah. Oh, great. Good, good. Well, thank you so much, Rachel. Anything else you want to mention before we wrap it up here today? I just want to encourage that no matter where your clients are in their relationship, that for them to feel that it's not daunting. Like, it's okay if your pillars aren't all like stellar, or it's really about the growth. And so...

 

44:26

every, you know, small actions can make big changes. So, and to kind of keep that in mind and not feel like you have to get it, feel overwhelmed that I have to make so many changes and redo everything, and just one step at a time and just keep working on growing. Yeah, great. Well, thank you so much. This has been such a good conversation. Yeah, I've really enjoyed it too. All right, thank you so much, Rachel, and thank you to all you listeners out there. You can definitely get a copy of her new book, A Soulful Marriage.

 

44:55

and go over to coup where you can learn a lot more about everything we have going on. Check out all the old podcast episodes and a lot of other free stuff that you can get over there. And if you're interested, there's a few more days to join the Couples Therapist Inner Circle. This is a really good time to join. You can get a good deal. You can actually try it out for seven days for free and see if it's a good fit for you. You can click the link below to find out more information. But if you enjoy the podcast and you learn a lot,

 

45:25

from the podcast, then it's a really good way to get some more training and get some more feedback on the cases you're working with and take your couples therapy practice to the next level. So that sounds like a good fit for you. I'd love to have you in the membership and I'm Shane Birkel and this is The Couples Therapist Couch. Thanks everybody, have a great week!